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Damix
05-29-2015, 02:02 AM
For BBD, Zak, Ballin, Jughead, me and possibly others.

Zak
05-29-2015, 12:25 PM
We brought in Jake Long for a talk yesterday but this needs to get done. It sounds like it was just an initial meeting though.

Jughead
05-29-2015, 01:01 PM
Phil McConkey's mustache. Discuss.

Damix
05-29-2015, 04:33 PM
We brought in Jake Long for a talk yesterday but this needs to get done. It sounds like it was just an initial meeting though.

Yea - looks like just seeing where he is in his rehab and a deal wouldn't be done till near training camp.

Damix
05-29-2015, 06:55 PM
+ Forenci and Scotty too

Zak
05-29-2015, 06:59 PM
+ Forenci and Scotty too

Scotty is going to be crying when he sees this since you grouped him with a UConnie.

Forenci
05-29-2015, 07:05 PM
Scotty loves me! He just can't handle how much better UConn is at sports than poopy Rutgers.

Damix
05-29-2015, 07:07 PM
Scotty is going to be crying when he sees this.

Shhhhhhhh.

scottyboy
05-30-2015, 03:17 AM
this thread needs to die like the other original giants discussion thread.

start it over without such badness

Forenci
05-30-2015, 10:09 PM
A wife beater and a talentless white guy? Pass.

bigbluedefense
06-01-2015, 04:37 PM
Newhouse is lining up at starting RT again today.

Someone hold me. Preferably Scotty. #Pause

BaLLiN
06-01-2015, 11:41 PM
Maybe Newhouse isn't that bad?

bigbluedefense
06-02-2015, 08:01 PM
More likely reason is there isn't anyone available that's any better. Which is scary to think about.

#BringBackGuyWhimper

BaLLiN
06-03-2015, 12:46 AM
More likely reason is there isn't anyone available that's any better. Which is scary to think about.

#BringBackGuyWhimper

Probably, I still don't really understand what happened to Brandon Mosley. He was in contention to start last year, then...kaput.

BaLLiN
06-03-2015, 01:14 AM
Landon Collins got #21 from DRC (who now has 41) though I think he might try to get Hynoski (DRC wore 45 in college and broncos but has been #23,29 elsewhere) to change (Hynoski was #27 in college and HS).

bigbluedefense
06-03-2015, 07:12 PM
Probably, I still don't really understand what happened to Brandon Mosley. He was in contention to start last year, then...kaput.

He sucked. He was only in contention to start bc we had no other choice, plus they wanted to see what he was made of. And he wasn't any good. In fact, I doubt he's on any team right now.

We're in a real crappy position. I guess we can try and hope that our 7th round RT can develop, but I think he's a G at best, and he'll need time to develop if he ever does.

I still think we should kick the tires off of Anthony Collins, I'm surprised why we didn't at least bring him in for a workout.

Maybe we just wait for some ppl to get cut off of other teams during the TC process and we snag someone up.

Either way, it's pretty desperate. And that's assuming that Flowers isn't an abortion at LT, which is wishful thinking on our part.

I think our realistic OL is going to wind up being:

LT: Flowers
LG: Pugh
C: Richburg
RG: Jerry
RT: Schwartz

And when Beatty (if) he comes back, Schwartz goes to RG, which shouldn't be a problem for him he's a vet he'll be plug and play and Flowers moves to RT.

Cig
06-03-2015, 07:32 PM
Flowers will be fine at LT.

bigbluedefense
06-03-2015, 07:44 PM
Flowers will be fine at LT.

Canes fan?

Cig
06-03-2015, 08:13 PM
No, but I scouted him a good bit for the last mock draft (where I picked him). He had a few rough games in his career, but also some pretty good ones against quality rushers, and he looked good in pass protection at the Senior Bowl. He's more natural on the right, but has the skill set to play on the left side as needed. Reminds me of Trent Williams, who was also thought of by some as RT-only leading up to that draft.

Mel Pipeher
06-03-2015, 11:20 PM
He sucked. He was only in contention to start bc we had no other choice, plus they wanted to see what he was made of. And he wasn't any good. In fact, I doubt he's on any team right now.

We're in a real crappy position. I guess we can try and hope that our 7th round RT can develop, but I think he's a G at best, and he'll need time to develop if he ever does.

I still think we should kick the tires off of Anthony Collins, I'm surprised why we didn't at least bring him in for a workout.

Maybe we just wait for some ppl to get cut off of other teams during the TC process and we snag someone up.

Either way, it's pretty desperate. And that's assuming that Flowers isn't an abortion at LT, which is wishful thinking on our part.

I think our realistic OL is going to wind up being:

LT: Flowers
LG: Pugh
C: Richburg
RG: Jerry
RT: Schwartz

And when Beatty (if) he comes back, Schwartz goes to RG, which shouldn't be a problem for him he's a vet he'll be plug and play and Flowers moves to RT.

I believe Raanan listed Mosley as a Guard running with the twos but I agree unless we see an improvement there's a good chance he doesn't make it out of this training camp.

I still think we should look at Collins as well. I think we're going to reassess the tackle position after OTAs. Long or Collins are the top Vets available.

Zak
06-03-2015, 11:44 PM
Well well well look who decided to join.

Mel Pipeher
06-04-2015, 08:21 AM
Yea I like harassing you guys too much.

bigbluedefense
06-04-2015, 04:05 PM
I believe Raanan listed Mosley as a Guard running with the twos but I agree unless we see an improvement there's a good chance he doesn't make it out of this training camp.

I still think we should look at Collins as well. I think we're going to reassess the tackle position after OTAs. Long or Collins are the top Vets available.

Oh I had no idea he was still on the team. Regardless, I don't see him getting passed Jerry. Jerry sucks as a run blocker, and is mediocre as a pass protector, but that sadly is the best we have as far as depth is concerned.

Sounds like Reese is going to wait until guys get cut before we make a move, according to Paul Schwartz.

No, but I scouted him a good bit for the last mock draft (where I picked him). He had a few rough games in his career, but also some pretty good ones against quality rushers, and he looked good in pass protection at the Senior Bowl. He's more natural on the right, but has the skill set to play on the left side as needed. Reminds me of Trent Williams, who was also thought of by some as RT-only leading up to that draft.

From what i've seen from him, while his technique is bad at times, he is able to get away with it bc he's so massive and athletic. And the Nebraska game is waaaay overblown, he took it to Gregory the entire game outside of 1 play, and Gregory lined up away from him most of the second half bc he was getting stone walled.

But what worries me is, in the NFL, if you want to play LT you better have your technique down. You will get abused with the mistakes he makes technically. That's why I felt a lot better with him at RT, but now forcing him at LT makes me nervous. He needed time to grow and now he won't get it.

Big_Pete
06-04-2015, 08:38 PM
We brought in Jake Long for a talk yesterday but this needs to get done. It sounds like it was just an initial meeting though.

Jerry Reese mentioned we are still looking for OL help.

we gave Long a physical and keeping an eye on him, which hints to me that he isn't quite ready yet

OSUGiants
06-05-2015, 12:59 AM
Was wondering where you guys went

scottyboy
06-05-2015, 01:11 AM
osu that new sig has gotta go

OSUGiants
06-05-2015, 01:18 AM
osu that new sig has gotta go

Whaaaaaaat? Por que? I'm merely repping the best team in the B1G and all of college football

scottyboy
06-05-2015, 01:19 AM
Whaaaaaaat? Por que?

We R rivals now

bigbluedefense
06-05-2015, 01:55 PM
I'm loving everything I hear about Spags defense so far. We pretty much already knew what he was going to bring here, it just feels good to hear that he hasn't really changed his scheme since he left.

That's exactly what we need, and his scheme is pretty much exactly what I prefer.

So now we really have no excuses on defense. If they suck, don't blame the scheme. It's all on the players this year. We have what we want schematically, now we really get to see who's what.

Same thing on offense. This is the best I've felt about our Xs and Os probably in the past 10 years. It's not the Xs and Os that will hold us back. It's the players. Time will tell what we have.

I see a 8-8 roster with potential to sway +-2 games either direction, now with the Beatty injury I don't know what we have anymore.

Damix
06-05-2015, 03:28 PM
If a player gets burnt in coverage, a player gets burnt in coverage. If theres a guy running down the field wide open and two players looking at each other not sure who was supposed to be covering him, its on the coach.

The former is Spags, the later Fewell.

bigbluedefense
06-05-2015, 03:55 PM
If a player gets burnt in coverage, a player gets burnt in coverage. If theres a guy running down the field wide open and two players looking at each other not sure who was supposed to be covering him, its on the coach.

The former is Spags, the later Fewell.

Pretty much yeah.

There will still be miscomms, there always is, but the number is going to drastically drop.

Damix
06-05-2015, 04:14 PM
Pretty much yeah.

There will still be miscomms, there always is, but the number is going to drastically drop.

Of course, remember how terrible our defense was the first two weeks of Spags first go around? It is going to take some time for us to gel again.

bigbluedefense
06-05-2015, 04:16 PM
Of course, remember how terrible our defense was the first two weeks of Spags first go around? It is going to take some time for us to gel again.

This combination of Coughlin/Spags/McAdoo is the best coaching combination we've had in the Eli era.

I really hope they can stick around, because I have serious doubts that we will upgrade from this combination through a coaching change if we don't make the playoffs.

If we don't make the playoffs this year it won't be because of the coaches, that's for sure.

Zach
06-05-2015, 04:17 PM
Itd probably be because of the OL if you dont make it.

bigbluedefense
06-05-2015, 04:21 PM
Itd probably be because of the OL if you dont make it.

Both lines, OL and DL. DL is still a question mark, I feel good about the talent we have on the DL but none of them are proven dependable commodities.

But yeah, it's mostly OL.

Zak
06-05-2015, 04:26 PM
I think the DL is going to be fine if another DT steps up and I think that will be Ellis. OL we need Flowers to do well right away.

bigbluedefense
06-08-2015, 06:44 PM
So Corey Washington is the new Ramses Barden huh?

Damix
06-08-2015, 06:51 PM
Did Barden even have good TC's? He had that one game.

bigbluedefense
06-08-2015, 06:55 PM
Yeah Barden was a training camp warrior. Stuff of legends.

I still want to see Corey got some snaps, but I'm not going to get too excited.

Zak
06-08-2015, 07:33 PM
He is certainly stepping into that role BBD.

scottyboy
06-08-2015, 07:53 PM
I thought Barden was pretty meh in camp. He had a killer game 3 seasons in but was all hype from college IIRC

bigbluedefense
06-08-2015, 07:55 PM
He is certainly stepping into that role BBD.

I actually like Corey a lot more than I ever liked Barden, but still, we've seen this before, I don't want to get excited about training camp superstars. We see it every year.

Mel Pipeher
06-08-2015, 08:25 PM
If Corey Washington puts together another TC/preseason like he did last year then we have to find a way to get him on the field. Same goes for Soup Harris.

Big_Pete
06-08-2015, 09:11 PM
Corey Washington seems to have been working on his special teams

Big_Pete
06-08-2015, 09:15 PM
The competition at WR is going to be pretty strong in camp.

Barring injury, the first four roster spots are locked up with Beckham, Cruz, Randle and Harris.

We are going to have two rosters spots between Harris, Parker, Washington, Davis etc.

BaLLiN
06-08-2015, 10:48 PM
I have the solution...we lure Anthony Davis to the Giants, he can stay at home and play RT. Boom.

Zak
06-08-2015, 11:06 PM
I have the solution...we lure Anthony Davis to the Giants, he can stay at home and play RT. Boom.

This would be the tits but the 49'ers retain his rights so not possible.

Zak
06-08-2015, 11:07 PM
I thought Barden was pretty meh in camp. He had a killer game 3 seasons in but was all hype from college IIRC

Naa Barden always had big camps which is why he stayed on my good side forever. Once he had that big game against Carolina on the Thursday I thought I was validated.

Big_Pete
06-08-2015, 11:46 PM
I have the solution...we lure Anthony Davis to the Giants, he can stay at home and play RT. Boom.

I would rather trade a day 3 draft pick to cleveland for Mitchell Schwartz.

He has been durable and is quite experienced at RT. He is off contract after the season and is Geoff Schwartz's younger brother.

Cleveland have been looking to upgrade anyway and have good options in house, plus they reportedly had Schwartz on the trade block last year.

Mitchell Schwartz would be effectively on a one year $1,095,114 "prove it" contract.

It would be similar to 2012 when we traded a 5th round pick for Keith Rivers.

Mel Pipeher
06-09-2015, 03:10 AM
Pete, you mentioned trading for Schwartz at least a dozen times. It makes absolutely no sense to trade a draft pick for a guy on a one year contract when considering Long and Collins are still available and Beatty will be back early November.

Big_Pete
06-09-2015, 03:28 AM
Pete, you mentioned trading for Schwartz at least a dozen times. It makes absolutely no sense to trade a draft pick for a guy on a one year contract when considering Long and Collins are still available and Beatty will be back early November.

I think it is a decent option.

Beatty won't be back until at least november, I don't think Newhouse is a reliable option.

Doesn't matter, I will shut up now.

bigbluedefense
06-09-2015, 03:29 AM
Guys, this is basically our OL. We just have to accept that.

bigbluedefense
06-09-2015, 01:39 PM
I think if RT becomes a major problem, I can see us moving Geoff to RT, and move Jerry in at G.

That's a realistic solution. Geoff played better than Pugh at RT last year in his limited time anyway, so he can hold it down. We obviously lose some at RG bc Jerry sucks, but Jerry sucks less than Newhouse so I could see that being the adjustment if we can't find a solution at RT.

But most importantly, if Flowers bombs at LT we're absolutely screwed. That's going to determine everything.

bigbluedefense
06-09-2015, 01:40 PM
Did we tell NYG to come here? Where is he?

Zak
06-09-2015, 01:54 PM
Did we tell NYG to come here? Where is he?

We had a lot of posts saying we all came here so he should have figured it out.

Zak
06-09-2015, 01:57 PM
I think if RT becomes a major problem, I can see us moving Geoff to RT, and move Jerry in at G.

That's a realistic solution. Geoff played better than Pugh at RT last year in his limited time anyway, so he can hold it down. We obviously lose some at RG bc Jerry sucks, but Jerry sucks less than Newhouse so I could see that being the adjustment if we can't find a solution at RT.

But most importantly, if Flowers bombs at LT we're absolutely screwed. That's going to determine everything.

Yeah your last sentence sums it up. They better be right on Flowers.

bigbluedefense
06-09-2015, 02:12 PM
Yeah your last sentence sums it up. They better be right on Flowers.

I don't know how I feel about it. When I studied Flowers he seemed pretty good. Technique issues yes, but he's so big and fast that he can get away with it.

But everything you hear from ppl who scout OL a lot better than I do says that he's going to be a bust. So I'm nervous about it.

Mel Pipeher
06-09-2015, 09:25 PM
I think if RT becomes a major problem, I can see us moving Geoff to RT, and move Jerry in at G.

That's a realistic solution. Geoff played better than Pugh at RT last year in his limited time anyway, so he can hold it down. We obviously lose some at RG bc Jerry sucks, but Jerry sucks less than Newhouse so I could see that being the adjustment if we can't find a solution at RT.

But most importantly, if Flowers bombs at LT we're absolutely screwed. That's going to determine everything.

Yea I could see that happening. Makes the most sense as a quick fix. But it is only what the 7th OTA so we're still early in this process. I think they'll make a decision after OTAs on whether or not we need to add someone. Hell they may even wait to training camp.

And you're right we have to be right about Flowers. I was very high on Flowers through the process and earlier than most but even still I felt he may need some time to make the transition to LT. I like that they have Flowers getting that extra work in right now though.

bigbluedefense
06-09-2015, 09:33 PM
Yea I could see that happening. Makes the most sense as a quick fix. But it is only what the 7th OTA so we're still early in this process. I think they'll make a decision after OTAs on whether or not we need to add someone. Hell they may even wait to training camp.

And you're right we have to be right about Flowers. I was very high on Flowers through the process and earlier than most but even still I felt he may need some time to make the transition to LT. I like that they have Flowers getting that extra work in right now though.

I hope someone works with him all offseason to work on that kick slide and his hand placement. If he can fix that, we have a beast. If he doesn't fix that, we're in big trouble.

He bends at the waist a decent amount too. I'm just nervous, he's not ready. He needed a year to develop.

Which also makes me question why we took him when he's clearly a developmental player and we're another bad season away from a revamped front office. We needed an immediate impact guy.

Big_Pete
06-10-2015, 02:23 AM
The Giants reportedly have some interest in WR James Jones who was recently cut by the Raiders in May. (The other teams with rumoured interest are the Seahawks and Chiefs)

McAdoo knows Jones from the Packers. Last year Jones had 73 rec for 666 yards, 6 TDs with the raiders.

Any thoughts?

Big_Pete
06-10-2015, 02:24 AM
I hope someone works with him all offseason to work on that kick slide and his hand placement. If he can fix that, we have a beast. If he doesn't fix that, we're in big trouble.

He bends at the waist a decent amount too. I'm just nervous, he's not ready. He needed a year to develop.

Which also makes me question why we took him when he's clearly a developmental player and we're another bad season away from a revamped front office. We needed an immediate impact guy.

I think Flowers will need to get by on raw strength and agility initially while his technique develops.

bigbluedefense
06-10-2015, 03:04 AM
Not a fan. He drops the ball way too much for my liking.

Big_Pete
06-10-2015, 03:23 AM
The interest in Jason Jones is intriguing, I had thought we were pretty solid at WR.

I wonder if the interest in Jason Jones is for a veteran prescence to help mentor our younger guys. He does have plenty of experience in a McAdoo style system, so perhaps he can help with technique and nuances to help our WRs take things to the next level. I guess outside of Cruz, we have a very young receiving corps and our players have limited experience in McAdoo's system.

It could also be as insurance for Cruz, but Cruz seems to be coming along well in his recovery.

Mel Pipeher
06-10-2015, 06:14 AM
I rather our young guys develop and see what they have.

bigbluedefense
06-10-2015, 02:24 PM
Yeah just let your young guys grow. I'm always a fan of letting young talent see more playing time than bringing in stop gap veterans.

I get the idea of bringing him in to teach the young guys the system, but my fear of that is Coughlin always plays veterans above young guys unless they get injured, so if you bring him in the building you should expect him to get snaps over young guys bc that's just how our coach is.

So to prevent that, I rather just not bring him in.

bigbluedefense
06-10-2015, 04:32 PM
I completely forgot that we signed Kendrick Ellis this offseason. That's such a great signing.

You guys know how I feel about 2 down run stuffers, I don't think they hold much monetary value and should rarely be re-signed unless they provide pass rush ability, but Ellis is exactly the type of player we need. He's a solid run stuffing NT, he's cheap, we spent minimal resources to get him, and he fills a void that we need on defense.

I'd imagine he doesn't see any time in the nickel. But our base package of Ayers, Ellis, Hank, JPP along the DL makes for a great run stuffing line.

Then of course we can mix and match. We can have a big nickel package, we can have a nascar, etc. We have versatility along the DL if JPP can stay healthy, if Moore develops, and if Ayers continues to grow the way he did last year.

I'm a big Ayers fan. I think the light came on last year and he finally is in a scheme that he can thrive in. If we can get him to stay healthy and he can grow, we have something there that most ppl are sleeping on.

Our LB core is still dooky juice but what can you do. Just pray that Kennard can be a stud for us and we get decent production out of the other 2 LB spots.

Zak
06-10-2015, 04:35 PM
I just brought Ellis up last week. I said he's going to be a big player for us this year. Ayers and Wynn I like as well.

bigbluedefense
06-10-2015, 04:39 PM
Am I overestimating and talking myself into this defense or na?

I hope I'm not entering that "talk yourself into the roster and think its better than it is" phase of the offseason.

I really think our DL can be great if the pieces all align the way I hope. And I think our secondary can be very good (not great though) if the pieces align. Our LB core will forever suck but whatever we got away with it before.

My only real concerns on this team this year are health, the OL, the LB core. That's really it.

I guess you can say FS, but for some reason I'm confident in Behre and I really have no justifiable reason why. I just am.

I guess my logic on it is, he has the height/weight/speed to be good, and the Giants were very high on him, plus they must have seen enough in the offseason and during the season to have enough confidence in him to grow into the position where they felt it was ok to let guys walk.

Maybe I'm being overly enthusiastic and homerish with that thought process, but that's where I'm at right now.

Mel Pipeher
06-11-2015, 07:23 AM
There's a lot of fluff out there you gotta stay away from or else you'll be sounding like the eagles fans every year thinking they going to win the SB.

But with that said I'm excited about certain aspects of our defense. I love the fact that Spags is back. We'll actually successfully blitz. I can't wait to see what he gets out of Kennard, Moore, Owa, and to a lesser extent Ayers. I like the Ellis signing. We should be much better vs the run and have a much more consistent pass rush.

I'm worried about the safeties. We got really lucky with Collins slipping to the 2nd. I'm worried about our depth at corner but I really like our starters in this system.

bigbluedefense
06-11-2015, 02:24 PM
I still don't get why we didn't bring Thurmond back. Nickel CB concerns me. And Nickel CB is more important than LB to me nowadays.

Damix
06-11-2015, 08:22 PM
We have to consider Mathis right?

Flowers-Mathis-Richburg-Schwartz-Pugh, if Flowers works out, thats still an upgrade over last years line.

bigbluedefense
06-11-2015, 08:41 PM
I'd be very interested if he's willing to sign a 2 year deal.

Mel Pipeher
06-11-2015, 09:35 PM
We should definitely consider Mathis. Rather than moving Pugh from Guard I'd move Schwartz to RT.

Zak
06-12-2015, 12:25 AM
Yes please bring in Mathis!

BaLLiN
06-12-2015, 01:08 AM
Yeah I'd rather move Schwartz to RT than Pugh. That's just prolonging a problem. Still think Long is a better option over the long term for the year because once Beatty comes back, where do we put them all?

Unless of course, you think that Beatty isn't coming back this year full health.

Mel Pipeher
06-12-2015, 04:49 AM
I guess that's a good problem to have.. But what's the chances of those 5 all staying healthy? We don't have that kind of luck.

bigbluedefense
06-12-2015, 12:29 PM
Yeah I doubt Beatty is coming back this year. Is Mathis a T? I don't see it honestly, I rather keep Pugh at RT for another year and just let Mathis do his thing at LG.

You can always move Pugh to G next year if necessary, ideally I want Pugh at G now, but I make the exception for a guy like Mathis.

Having that said...I doubt we pull the trigger. It just doesn't feel like something we would do.

OSUGiants
06-12-2015, 07:22 PM
Off topic, but I don't like how none of us have sigs/avatars. Can't tell anyone apart without reading the username. Damix doesn't even type in pink! What is this world coming to?!?!?!

bigbluedefense
06-12-2015, 07:57 PM
Damix should have pink font out of principle tbh.

Zak
06-13-2015, 12:28 AM
It's not pink guys!!!

Big_Pete
06-16-2015, 01:20 AM
I'd be very interested if he's willing to sign a 2 year deal.

I would imagine Mathis will get a 1 year deal worth around $3m-4m with incentives that can get it up to $5.5m

I would really like to add Mathis, I think he probably adds some veteran leadership that will help our younger guys take the next step. We would have options with either Pugh or Schwartz at RT.

I am not sure it will happen, but it would be nice to see.

It pushes Newhouse and Jerry to backup roles and potentially gives us an elite pair of guards which will be a huge plus for our ground game.

If Beatty comes back late in the season, it is a nice problem to have.

Big_Pete
06-16-2015, 01:34 AM
Am I overestimating and talking myself into this defense or na?

I hope I'm not entering that "talk yourself into the roster and think its better than it is" phase of the offseason.

I really think our DL can be great if the pieces all align the way I hope. And I think our secondary can be very good (not great though) if the pieces align. Our LB core will forever suck but whatever we got away with it before.

My only real concerns on this team this year are health, the OL, the LB core. That's really it.

I guess you can say FS, but for some reason I'm confident in Behre and I really have no justifiable reason why. I just am.

I guess my logic on it is, he has the height/weight/speed to be good, and the Giants were very high on him, plus they must have seen enough in the offseason and during the season to have enough confidence in him to grow into the position where they felt it was ok to let guys walk.

Maybe I'm being overly enthusiastic and homerish with that thought process, but that's where I'm at right now.

I think there is cause to be somewhat optimistic with our defence, but it is based on potential and players stepping up.

Firstly Spags is good at getting pressue and making in game adjustments. Our defence relies on the front seven and I think we have decent depth and options for Spags to work to our advantage. I do think we should be able to have a physical defence up front.

At DE we have Ayers and JPP plus we replace Kiwanuka with Selvie and Owamagabe. Plus have decent Moore and Wynn who have flashed.

At DT Hankins is a stud plus we replace Patterson with Ellis at DT who will help our early dowb run defence. Jenkins still has some left in the tank and Bromley has potential.

At LB, hopefully Beason can be healthier. Kennard has real potential and we replace Williams and Paysigner with Thomas and Casillas, both of whom have better coverage skills and special teams.

bigbluedefense
06-18-2015, 03:30 PM
I try not to get too excited, but everything I hear about Spags makes me drool. It feels so good knowing I don't have to worry about Xs and Os holding us back anymore. This is the best coaching staff we've ever had in the Coughlin era.

I'm confident in our defensive game plan and offensive game plan now, it's been a long time since I can remember myself being confident in both heading into every game.

On the negative side, sounds like Safety is going to be a concern. It's early though, we're basically putting all of our eggs in Nat Behre's basket. That's dangerous for sure.

If the experiment starts exploding in our face during training camp I wouldn't be surprised to see us trade for a veteran Safety sometime before the season starts.

bigbluedefense
06-24-2015, 02:24 PM
Sounds like Orleans Darkwa has looked good in minicamp. I'm glad to hear that, I honestly liked him more than Andre Brown last year. I think he can earn a spot on the roster.

Still skeptical about Rueben Randle. I loved him coming out of the draft, but his attitude, work ethic, and his inability to run routes or get any separation last year really turned me off.

Damix
06-24-2015, 02:28 PM
Everything coming out of camp in Randle is best WR playing (granted no Cruz or ODB).

Randle could be huge this year, ODB is going to get a ton of attention and we have no idea what we're getting from Cruz. We know Donnell is more safety net than anything else.

bigbluedefense
06-24-2015, 02:31 PM
Last year when teams adjusted to OBJ and like triple covered him Randle went on a tear. It seemed like he thrived the most as a big slot WR. But with Cruz back I don't see him working the slot in 3 WR sets.

He still didn't get much separation though. Which is odd bc he was good at that early in his career and in college. I wonder if he had a nagging injury that slowed him down last year?

Bc we didn't draft a WR, we really need Randle to come up big this year. If we can have a healthy Cruz, OBJ, and Vereen and Randle improves, we could have something.

Of course if our OL is poop then it all falls apart. So many Ifs with this team. Its hard to get a read on them. They can be great, they can be poop, they can be average. So much variance.

Damix
06-24-2015, 02:36 PM
Man the Beatty thing sucks, but I still have faith in this offense. I'm much more worried about the defense.

bigbluedefense
06-24-2015, 02:45 PM
I just looked it up, we were 4th in the league in sacks last year. Assuming the DL is even better this year barring injuries (I see no reason why it shouldn't be), our pass rush should be fine.

Now the question is run defense and coverage. We gave up 4.9 ypc, the worst in the NFL. And our LBs are still poop, so that's a major concern.

And our pass coverage, I want to think that will greatly improve with the scheme change. Players couldn't comprehend Fewell's awful scheme.

So if we improve the rush or at the very least stay the same, we improve the pass coverage to average which I think is reasonable, then our only real concern is run defense.

Did we do enough this offseason to improve our run defense? I honestly don't think so. What did we really change? Our LBs still suck, our safeties are complete unknowns. Our DL, we only added 1 guy to the DT rotation and he's a situational player.

That's a major concern. I'm a worn out record with this but I'll keep saying it, we need linebackers.

Zak
06-24-2015, 02:52 PM
Ellis is going to help a lot with the run defense. He should be able to do something similar to what Joseph was giving us when our run D was top 10 two years ago.

bigbluedefense
06-24-2015, 02:56 PM
The thing with our front 7 is we have enough versatility to have a run stopping front in both base and nickel, but the problem is we give up so much pass rush and coverage as a result.

I'm curious to see what Bromley brings to the table.

A huge concern of mine is the tackling ability of the linebackers. We miss way too many tackles as a defense. Even our DL is awful at wrapping up.

Big_Pete
07-01-2015, 01:25 AM
The supplemental draft is set for July 9,

Should the Giants consider picking Clemson OT Isiah Battle? If so what round?

Does anyone have info about Battle?

I did find this link which is intriguing http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2511182-clemson-ot-isaiah-battle-has-talent-to-break-supplemental-draft-dry-spell

Damix
07-01-2015, 01:27 AM
I'd throw a 7th at him maybe, sounds like he is no where near ready to contribute.

Big_Pete
07-01-2015, 02:23 AM
I'd throw a 7th at him maybe, sounds like he is no where near ready to contribute.

It seems Battle is potentially an early round talent. Obvioulsy it depends on how we assess the kid, but if we are happy with him I don't see a problem with a 4th or 5th round pick in the supplemental draft..

We do have issues at RT and while Schwartz and Pugh could be options, I think we really prefer them at guard if at all possible. Newhouse may be adequate at RT, but behind him we have no depth. I don't see an issue with rolling the dice on a young kid provided we have a good feel for him.

We could look at a guy like Jake Long, but he is coming back from injury (and probably isn't healthy yet), so doesn't seem like a great stop-gap ahead of Beatty's return.

We could be interested in Mathis, but he won't be cheap and likely means moving Pugh or Schwartz to RT.

The other factor to consider is LT depth, currently behind Flowers we don't really have much option.

bigbluedefense
07-04-2015, 02:36 PM
My thing is, rarely do these supplemental prospects ever work. And if this guy is a project lineman like the reports suggest, then he serves no purpose for us. We need an immediate starter.

Damix
07-05-2015, 08:40 PM
You've got to be kidding me.

Zak
07-05-2015, 09:04 PM
Just insane. What a frigging moron. So happy we didn't work out an extension.

Big_Pete
07-05-2015, 11:16 PM
With JPP this is insane. He is trying to get a new deal before July 15 or he has to play on the 1 year franchise tender.

Early reports from Schefter are that it isn't career threatening, but sound rather nasty. It doesn't look good for this season. (Particularly with training camp 4 weeks away)

It was looking like JPP was on a 1 year prove it deal with NYG.

I could see the Giants pulling the franchise tag and reinvesting that $15m elsewhere.

Big_Pete
07-06-2015, 02:58 AM
NYG could determine that JPP won’t be able to play due to a non-football injury, place him on the non-football injury list and elect to not pay him.*

bigbluedefense
07-06-2015, 01:40 PM
You can't fix stupid. JPP is an idiot.

Let's just hope it's not as bad as the initial reports indicated and he can play this season. If we lose him that's a huge blow.

Big_Pete
07-06-2015, 09:05 PM
The Giants have pulled their $60m multiyear offer (which JPP wasn't going to sign)

We will have to see how this pans out, but clearly JPP has lost a fair amount of value.

Hopefully the prognosis isn't too bad.

Mel Pipeher
07-06-2015, 09:11 PM
We should refrain from jumping to conclusions. Nobody knows exactly what happened yet.

Let's just hope he heals quick and can still play this season.

Big_Pete
07-08-2015, 08:17 PM
Ronnie Barnes went down to see JPP, and left without seeing him.

It seems the medical info is coming from JPPs agent.

It is concerning that Barnes wasn't allowed to see JPP and get an idea of the extent of the injury. If it wasn't too bad you would imagine they would show the giants.

either way there are $14.8m reasons to let the Giants medical staff get involved .

Forenci
07-09-2015, 01:33 AM
What the hell. Training camp hasn't even started and we're already suffering injuries?

Zak
07-09-2015, 12:53 PM
Only our starting LT and best DE. That's nothing.

BaLLiN
07-09-2015, 12:59 PM
So reports are that a portion of his index finger will be amputated.

scottyboy
07-09-2015, 01:44 PM
both are ex-big east rutgers rivals and from dumb schools so we shouldn't be too surprised

bigbluedefense
07-09-2015, 02:47 PM
Apparently JPP will be fine. 6 week injury, he'll be back before the start of the season. And according to all the fake doctors on Twitter, it shouldn't effect his play all that much if at all.

I still don't know if we sign him long term but I'm hoping we still have him for at least this season. We need him.

Damix
07-15-2015, 06:27 PM
Mosely v Newhouse for RT

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/brandon-mosley-will-have-a-real-chance-to-win-giants-rt-job-071515

Big_Pete
07-15-2015, 08:23 PM
Giants have waived WR Marcus Harris and signed S Jeromy Miles

Big_Pete
07-15-2015, 08:25 PM
Mosely v Newhouse for RT

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/brandon-mosley-will-have-a-real-chance-to-win-giants-rt-job-071515

That's interesting, it does mean the rest of the Oline is pretty set.

I would not rule out bringing in a vet if the opportunity presents itself.

Mel Pipeher
07-16-2015, 04:28 AM
Mosely v Newhouse for RT

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/brandon-mosley-will-have-a-real-chance-to-win-giants-rt-job-071515

R.I.P. Eli

Mel Pipeher
07-16-2015, 04:34 AM
Giants have waived WR Marcus Harris and signed S Jeromy Miles

That's kinda surprising to me we waived soup. He played really well last training camp.

We needed to add a vet safety. Hopefully miles works out.

Big_Pete
07-16-2015, 05:50 AM
That's kinda surprising to me we waived soup. He playeDoes really well last training camp.

We needed to add a vet safety. Hopefully miles works out.

I am not surprised we dropped a WR, like you I am surprised it was Harris. I wonder if there is a health issue. Either way we have decent WR depth.

I do like the addition of Miles. He did ok for Spags last year in Baltimore.

Zak
07-16-2015, 12:37 PM
I'm putting a lot of pressure on Spage but I think he'll do wonders for this defense. Damn JPP had to go out and possibly ruin it with his stupidity though.

Big_Pete
07-16-2015, 08:32 PM
Soup Harris reportedly had microfracture surgery

bigbluedefense
07-16-2015, 08:46 PM
We seriously better not go into the season with Mosley/Newhouse as our RT

Zak
07-17-2015, 12:32 PM
We seriously better not go into the season with Mosley/Newhouse as our RT

I hope Jake Long gets healthy soon and we sign him.

Big_Pete
07-21-2015, 10:38 PM
I would like to see us look at Barry Cofield on a cheap deal. He is reportedly healthy and does have history with Spags.

Cofield would compete with Kuhn, Jenkins, Bromley and Ellis as well as give more depth heading into camp. I would expect a healthy Cofield would beat out Kuhn at the very least.

Zak
07-28-2015, 06:05 PM
Glad Osi is retiring a Giant even with the dumb one day contract thing. It's just right.

Mel Pipeher
07-28-2015, 06:59 PM
I would like to see us look at Barry Cofield on a cheap deal. He is reportedly healthy and does have history with Spags.

Cofield would compete with Kuhn, Jenkins, Bromley and Ellis as well as give more depth heading into camp. I would expect a healthy Cofield would beat out Kuhn at the very least.

Whatever it takes to keep Kuhn off the roster. I've always liked Barry. He'd be good for the rotation.

Mel Pipeher
07-28-2015, 07:01 PM
Glad Osi is retiring a Giant even with the dumb one day contract thing. It's just right.

Word. I'm sure when it's time Tuck will do the same.

Mel Pipeher
07-28-2015, 07:15 PM
So Atlanta is checking out Jake Long..

BaLLiN
07-28-2015, 11:55 PM
So Atlanta is checking out Jake Long..

If we didn't sign him by now, I don't think that it would be a good idea to sign him at all. We have a lot of players that will be at new positions/new pros/new teams and it just doesn't make sense to mess with that again during the offseason.

Zak
07-29-2015, 12:12 AM
Word. I'm sure when it's time Tuck will do the same.

Absolutely will. Osi still might be able to help. :)

Zak
07-29-2015, 02:38 PM
Sounds like Long might be coming in for another visit.

Mel Pipeher
07-30-2015, 03:50 AM
Yea then they said he left to visit the Broncos. Denver is probably his best choice. He starts at LT the whole year and they have a legit shot at the Super Bowl.

Zak
07-30-2015, 01:21 PM
I'd still like to bring in one more OL to compete. Mathis has dissapeared it seems.

Zak
07-30-2015, 10:46 PM
James Jones is expected to sign a 1 year deal with us. Decent Cruz insurance.

BaLLiN
07-30-2015, 11:46 PM
Not to say that Jones is a great WR, but I think this is the year that Eli blows up. I just don't know how we are going to do our roster and I don't want to let go of Corey Washington.

WR: Odell, Cruz, Randle, Jones, Harris, Washington/Davis

I think Davis might just make it over Washington as a gunner, but if we could find a replacement at LS for DeOssie that is an OL, maybe we can roster 7 WR's.

Mel Pipeher
07-31-2015, 09:57 PM
Its always good to have depth, but I just don't see the need with Harris signed.

bigbluedefense
07-31-2015, 10:59 PM
Are we really going to have Newhouse at RT?

bigbluedefense
08-03-2015, 01:27 PM
I'm meh on James Jones. I understand he's quality depth, but I don't trust his hands. I just feel like if he were ever to see the field he's going to make a critical drop at some point in the season that will screw us.

But at least this puts a little bit of pressure on Randle and gives us some security for Cruz.

I'm also still hoping we can sign Long bc Newhouse is awful. And Moseley sucks too. Another potential solution is if Schwartz can stay healthy, move him to RT and play Jerry at G. Schwartz ideal position is RG but he can play RT and survive there if necessary.

Mel Pipeher
08-03-2015, 09:35 PM
I think I said it on the old board but I'll say it again I have a feeling Bennett Jackson will be solid for us.

Flowers tweaks his hip flexor so Pugh kicks over to LT. Not trying to push the panic button too early but we should really make this move on Long.

bigbluedefense
08-03-2015, 09:46 PM
If Flowers goes down, just go ahead and start looking at draft prospects.

Zak
08-04-2015, 02:24 PM
If Flowers goes down, just go ahead and start looking at draft prospects.

Basically. This offense can be top 5 this year but with the OL who the heck knows how we're really going to pan out. I can't believe I'm saying it but the Beatty injury was so huge.

bigbluedefense
08-04-2015, 02:31 PM
Basically. This offense can be top 5 this year but with the OL who the heck knows how we're really going to pan out. I can't believe I'm saying it but the Beatty injury was so huge.

That injury really screwed us. He was the one guy on the OL that we couldn't afford to lose. And it pains me to admit that bc we all know I've been one of the more critical Beatty haters on here.

But I have to admit he had a good year last year. And we have no other options.

Zak
08-04-2015, 02:32 PM
That injury really screwed us. He was the one guy on the OL that we couldn't afford to lose. And it pains me to admit that bc we all know I've been one of the more critical Beatty haters on here.

But I have to admit he had a good year last year. And we have no other options.

I don't understand how Long was not signed yet. He has to be an upgrade over what we have even at 90%.

bigbluedefense
08-04-2015, 02:38 PM
I don't understand how Long was not signed yet. He has to be an upgrade over what we have even at 90%.

The only thing I can think of is he must not be healthy at all. It's not just us passing on him, everyone is. And there's lots of teams who could use a healthy Jake Long.

So clearly something is up. That knee has to be wrecked.

I think if all else fails, we can always play Schwartz at RT if he's healthy. He was solid at RT last year for the few games he was there.

If Flowers bombs out at LT we have bigger problems. Maybe Pugh can go there, but we'll have to rely on the run game and lots of 3 step drops and it severely limits our offense.

Zak
08-04-2015, 02:48 PM
Yeah but then RG is weak. Need Beatty to come back early for sure and Flowers to be ready right away. Hope this flexor doesn't linger and stunt his development at all.

bigbluedefense
08-04-2015, 02:52 PM
Yeah but it's pick your poison at this point. Would you rather be very strong on the interior but very week at both OT spots or be solid in the interior, ok at RT and mediocre at LT?

I think the second option is more manageable bc you can just leave a guy to block on the blind side and try to survive.

Zak
08-04-2015, 03:10 PM
With this team we're probably better off with better interior play. We're going to do a lot of quick drops regardless and if they're coming through the middle it could be a problem.

bigbluedefense
08-04-2015, 03:20 PM
My concern with that is, if you just rely on 3 step drops, those DBs and LBs are going to start sitting on those routes and there's going to be turnovers.

The route tree is limited in 3 step drops. DBs will know that and will cover better, they'll anticipate better, LBs can clog the middle of the field reducing YAC and making passing lanes smaller, you can cheat up your safeties and bring more guys in the box to stop the run etc.

You can't just rely on the short passing game. You need to stretch the field. You need to be able to do a 5 step drop without getting killed.

I can see us doing primarily 3 step drops and some max protect 5 steps to survive, but in an offense that's predicated on spreading you out and picking you apart, not being able to do those 5 step drops in spread sets hurts our potential on offense.

I think we can survive, but if we want to be the elite offense that they're capable of being when healthy, we need to open the playbook up.

Zak
08-04-2015, 03:32 PM
We're going to spread the field horizontally even though there is only so much you can do in that regards like you stated.

bigbluedefense
08-04-2015, 03:38 PM
Yeah I'm curious to see if we incorporate more options in our route tree to help with the issue.

Bc 3 step options are a lot more successful on paper than a pure 3 step WCO bc these guys get the option to sit in holes they see.

The Pats mastered the 3 step choice route offense. And they do just fine. But it's a mix of our old system with our new. Would be interesting to see if we take some old wrinkles and put it in the offense or not.

bigbluedefense
08-05-2015, 01:10 PM
Am I crazy for thinking we have the best group of RBs in the division?

-Washington: They have Morris and who else? Morris is good, but is he really that much better than Jennings or Williams btw the tackles? He's also not versatile like Vereen is. We have better depth and RB archetypes than Washington

-Dallas: They don't have anyone really so we win by default.

-Philly: Murray is great when healthy, but with his injury history and the historical evidence of RBs falling apart immediately after a season like he just had, how good is he going to be? Mathews is injury prone as well. Sproles is old.

We have Jennings who is our jack of all trades guy, we have Williams who is our btw the tackles ground n pound guy, we have Vereen who is our spread sheet guy who is a mismatch out of the backfield. And I personally think we're all sleeping on Darkwa who can fill the Vereen role comfortably if given the opportunity.

We have a versatile and deep backfield. No one is amazing in their own right, but altogether they make up a very good backfield. And the rest of the division isn't exactly great at RB so I think when you add it all up, we have the best group of RBs in the division.

Zak
08-05-2015, 01:17 PM
Yes we have the best group of RB's and WR's in the division. Best QB also. Worst OL.

bigbluedefense
08-05-2015, 01:23 PM
Yes we have the best group of RB's and WR's in the division. Best QB also. Worst OL.

I'd argue that our fully healthy OL is the 3rd best, maybe the 2nd best in the division.

Washington has Trent and Scherff but the rest of their OL isn't any better than ours. I'd say we're better than them at 3 out of 5 (maybe 4) positions along the OL when fully healthy.

Philly has us beat at 3 positions. Both OT spots and C. We (when fully healthy) have better Guards.

Dallas is clearly better.

So I'd say a fully healthy Giants OL is 3rd in the division.

Weapons wise, I give Dallas the edge still. Dez, Witten. Terrance is still pretty good and Beasley is a solid slot. We have OBJ, hobbled Cruz and who else? Randle? Donnell? You can argue that their JAGs are just as good as our JAGs if not better. We have Vereen so there's an advantage there. It's fair to say that it's close to say the least.

We have the best qb.

When you look at the division from a personnel standpoint all 4 teams are pretty even for the most part. It's a wide open division. I'd give Dallas and NYG the edge bc of the qb position, but this division can really go any direction.

Dallas on paper has the most talent in the division so I think you have to give them the edge on winning the division. They lowkey have a very good DL. Hardy, Melton, Lawrence and Gregory makes a pretty damn good DL.

Zak
08-05-2015, 01:26 PM
OBJ is slightly behind Dez right now. Witten will slow down eventually. Cruz will be average and Randle as much as we dislike him still does put up very good numbers and believe it or not is still young and learning. We signed Harris from them so we'll see if that does anything.

bigbluedefense
08-05-2015, 01:28 PM
Since I'm bored and need to take a brain break:

QB:

1. Eli
2. Romo
3. Bradford
4. Griffin

RB:

1. Giants
2. Washington
3. Philly
4. Dallas

TE:

1. Dallas
2. Philly
3. Washington
4. Giants

WR:

1. Dallas
2. Giants
3. Washington
4. Philly

OL:

1. Dallas
2. Philly
3. Giants
4. Redskins

That's how I rank the offensive positions.

bigbluedefense
08-05-2015, 02:02 PM
DL:

1. Philly
2. Dallas
3. Giants (for now)
4. Washington

LB:

1. Philly
2. Dallas
3. Washington
4. Giants

CB:

1. Giants
2. Philly (by default almost, they all suck)
3. Dallas
4. Washington

Safety:

We all suck, but we suck the hardest

bigbluedefense
08-05-2015, 04:17 PM
We need to get NYG's behind over here. Someone get a hold of him and tell him to come here.

Zak
08-05-2015, 04:52 PM
We need to get NYG's behind over here. Someone get a hold of him and tell him to come here.

That's your boy. Get him on BBI or something.

bigbluedefense
08-05-2015, 05:17 PM
That's your boy. Get him on BBI or something.

I was never on BBI. I have a 1 forum limit, anything beyond that is overkill for me.

cmarq83
08-05-2015, 07:45 PM
You guys most certainly do not have the best RB's in the division. I'm saying this as a BC fan and a pretty big Vereen fan. Say what you want about the Dallas O-Line, but Murray is still the most talented back in the division by a wide margin, and they have Sproles too.

bigbluedefense
08-05-2015, 07:51 PM
You guys most certainly do not have the best RB's in the division. I'm saying this as a BC fan and a pretty big Vereen fan. Say what you want about the Dallas O-Line, but Murray is still the most talented back in the division by a wide margin, and they have Sproles too.

If Murray is healthy then yes, I agree. But I highly doubt that he ever will be the same RB ever again. We have a lot of historical evidence that suggests that he'll never be the same. When you combine that with his own injury history it's just very unlikely to me that he'll be the same player he was last year. Dallas purposely rode him to the ground last year.

And Sproles is old. Father time will catch up to him.

cmarq83
08-05-2015, 08:05 PM
If Murray is healthy then yes, I agree. But I highly doubt that he ever will be the same RB ever again. We have a lot of historical evidence that suggests that he'll never be the same. When you combine that with his own injury history it's just very unlikely to me that he'll be the same player he was last year. Dallas purposely rode him to the ground last year.

And Sproles is old. Father time will catch up to him.

That's a pretty big overreaction. Murray is 27 with less than 1000 career carries. He's played 13 or more games in 3 of his 4 seasons, and 13 games of Murray is a lot better than a full season of your crew. Jennings and Vereen don't have the cleanest injury history either. It's kind of the in thing to say Murray will break down, but he's missed 2 games total the last 2 seasons, and everybody repeatedly said he'd get hurt yet he didn't.

Jennings and Williams couldn't even break 4 ypc last season, and Jennings is 30. Philly's situation is clearly better than yours is, which it should be considering how much they're paying for it.

Mel Pipeher
08-05-2015, 10:49 PM
Yea I agree with this dude. I hate Philly but they have the best RBs in the division. Murray, Mathews, Sproles. Thats as good as any group in the league.

I think we have the best WRs in the division. I'd take Beckham/Cruz/Randle Over Dez/Williams/Beasley. I also like our depth after those three. Cowboys really don't have much.

Also, Melton is no longer a Cowboy but they have Tyson Crawford who is an underrated player but very good.

Romo vs Eli is a push

Mel Pipeher
08-06-2015, 08:35 AM
I think daMonsta Moore is going to have a big season. He's my pick for breakout player of the year.

bigbluedefense
08-06-2015, 04:25 PM
My boy Ayers is apparently looking very good. I thought he had a very underrated season last year. He created tons of pressure both outside and inside, but he just didn't finish any of them. Lots of missed sack opportunities.

If he can clean that up and keep up his pace, we might have something there. He's a perfect fit for Spags scheme to play the Tuck role.

I don't want to blame scheme for his short comings in his career, but he was grossly mismanaged before he came here. He's a good scheme fit here and hopefully he takes advantage of it.

Zak
08-06-2015, 04:36 PM
I was excited to see the DL with the pieces we have under Spags. JPP then went and F'ed that up.

bigbluedefense
08-06-2015, 04:38 PM
I think JPP is done here, even if he plays this year it will be his last year with the team. They won't sign him back unless he has a monster season.

He disrespected management, they don't take that very well.

If the Jets are dumb and don't bring back Mo Wilk, I'd love to take the money we had planned on spending for JPP and use it on Mo. After Sheldon decided to be a dumbass though that's probably not likely anymore.

Zak
08-06-2015, 04:40 PM
I'd be fine with that trade especially if Moore or Odi break out.

Mel Pipeher
08-06-2015, 09:14 PM
Pugh
Gettis
Dallas
JJ
Newhouse

And to no surprise they are getting their asses handed to them. With Newhouse (our potential starting RT) just getting abused by Moore. We're throwing shit on the wall and hoping it sticks.

SMH. Our offense has potential to really be something this year. Eli could have his best season yet but enough with the weapons. We need OL.

Pugh should be practicing and getting reps at LG and we should have already signed Long or Collins to be a swing tackle for us. That's how we'll be best prepared for the season. Not all this shifting players around bullshit. Let these guys build chemistry and learn their positions. I think we've seen enough of Newhouse and Mosley. We're just wasting time now and getting behind the rest of the league.

scottyboy
08-06-2015, 09:49 PM
Ohara called out our oline for being bitches and I miss him

Mel Pipeher
08-07-2015, 08:38 AM
How good did we have it? OHara, Richie, Snee, Diehl. Those were some tough feisty ass dudes. Man they played with a lot of heart. We were spoiled. I miss them, too.

bigbluedefense
08-07-2015, 12:56 PM
I wouldn't overreact too much to them sitting out. The Giants are trying to be extra cautious to avoid injuries, it was probably just for precaution.

Honestly we need to fire our training staff. They're awful. But they're Mara guys so we never will.

We have the best medical staff in the league but our trainers are garbage.

bigbluedefense
08-07-2015, 01:05 PM
I do think we're missing toughness along the OL though. All of these guys are passive dudes. Maybe Richburg can be that guy, but Pugh is a finesse player, Schwartz is all talk (getting tired of his bullshit), Beatty is a marshmallow, Flowers seems like a quiet dude.

We don't have that nasty to our OL. We need that one nasty, dirty, loud OLmen who starts fights and plays after the whistle.

I wish all of our OLmen were like that, but if we can develop 1 guy to be that, it will help with the overall physicality of the unit.

Zak
08-07-2015, 01:23 PM
Yeah the OL situation is an absolute mess right now and it's my biggest concern more so than JPP and the S situation.

bigbluedefense
08-07-2015, 01:31 PM
I'm not overly concerned yet. I'm concerned, but not overly concerned.

It's early in camp. We knew before TC started that our depth at OL is putrid, so the second unit getting booty rocked doesn't surprise me at all. We have no second unit.

The first unit is a concern, but minor injuries aren't anything to sound the alarm over. If we get a serious injury I'll start to panic. For now just ride the waves. This first unit is going to have it's growing pains, it's going to have bad days, just hope they can stay healthy and develop over the next month.

We're going to see a lot of bad days out of them. They're not a good unit right now. And lots of guys learning new positions. So it's going to be ugly on many occasions. Just hope that they get good enough so that Eli won't die. That's all you can really ask for out of these guys this year.

bigbluedefense
08-07-2015, 02:02 PM
I'm starting to hate Geoff Schwartz.

As much as I dislike him though, I'm wondering what's the better option for us? Sign Jake Long to play RT, or move Schwartz to RT and sign Evan Mathis to play G?

bigbluedefense
08-07-2015, 02:56 PM
Let's sign Aldon Smith. Idc. I'll drive him around.

Mel Pipeher
08-07-2015, 04:50 PM
We already have one knucklehead

BaLLiN
08-07-2015, 07:18 PM
Man, at least we haven't had the offseason San Fran has had.

Coach that has taken the team to the NFC championship, playoffs consistently leaves for college
Two all pro defensive players retire
One promising young rookie retires after just a season
Mainstay at running back leaves for a contender
All pro rusher gets his third disciplinary action
...Jeez

scottyboy
08-07-2015, 07:22 PM
they also had Anthony Davis retire

bigbluedefense
08-07-2015, 07:25 PM
Newhouse did 2 false starts during a walk through. A WALK THROUGH.

I'm starting to think we need to trade for an OT. Maybe throw a 3rd at some team for a quality backup OT they have on the roster or something.

Mel Pipeher
08-07-2015, 09:56 PM
Newhouse did 2 false starts during a walk through. A WALK THROUGH.

I'm starting to think we need to trade for an OT. Maybe throw a 3rd at some team for a quality backup OT they have on the roster or something.

lmao I wish I knew what Eli was thinking

BaLLiN
08-08-2015, 02:51 AM
whatever the Eli version of this is…probably throw in a few omaha's and a dopey face

DttfyOeU3vw

CJSchneider
08-09-2015, 11:21 PM
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/nfl-legend-frank-gifford-passes-away-84-n406761

R.I.P. Frank Gifford

bigbluedefense
08-10-2015, 01:27 PM
Frank lived the american dream. You guys remember that stewardess he cheated on Kathy Lee with?

WHEW!

Milf/Gilf to the extreme

bigbluedefense
08-11-2015, 02:25 PM
I'm not one of those guys that reads too much into Training Camp starting lineups, especially this early in camp but, Wynn starting over Moore is a wtf to me.

Don't get me wrong I like Wynn, but it makes me question wtf Moore is doing that he still can't crack the starting lineup.

I know he's immature as hell. And that's probably what is holding him back, but seriously, wtf man, get it together.

We need him in the worst way this year.

Mel Pipeher
08-11-2015, 04:19 PM
I think Wynn is listed as a starter because of how he plays against the run and he'll be JPPs primary backup. We'll play Ayers at DT on pass rushing downs then Moore will be on the field. So he'll see plenty of action.

JPP and Wynn on one side, Ayers and Moore on the other. Not really sure where Owa fits in yet.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2015, 04:54 PM
Ayers should start at LE in place of JPP for now. Moore should be at RE. If we're playing Wynn and Ayers its bc Moore's run fits are still an issue. Which is a problem. This is year 3 he's gotta get it by now

Mel Pipeher
08-11-2015, 05:32 PM
I see what you're saying but I think there's a few reasons why Wynn is in for JPP. When JPP plays he's rarely off the field and he'll be back by week 1. It makes more sense for Ayers/Moore to get comfortable on their side rather than flipping them around. Wynn plays the role of JPP for now and that gives our coaches an idea of how this defense will look for the season.

And I'm not trying to take anything away from Wynn. I really like him.

Also, Moore is still only what 22/23 years old. He came into the league as a baby. He's still developing. But by all reports that I've read he's having a great camp so far.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2015, 06:56 PM
Let's trade Nassib for Mo Wilkerson.

bigbluedefense
08-13-2015, 04:45 PM
Flowers is looking decent. That's promising. We need him to be if we have any chance this year.

Pugh apparently looks very good at LG. That's very promising. If we can just get that RT position figured out and Schwartz can stay healthy for a change (not holding my breathe) we'll be fine.

I do find it interesting that the TE position is a 3 man race. You figure Donnell would be the clear front runner the way they talked him up, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I also don't know what to make of this talk about Hoseley. Is he the next Corey Webster? Spags did it with Webster. Hoseley has the talent, but he's been pure garbage and I'm not getting my hopes up. So far it sounds like the light is coming on, but I don't want to fall for training camp hype so I'm going to assume the worst and hope for the best. It would be nice if he can fill that nickel CB spot for us like we always wanted him to.

Big_Pete
08-13-2015, 08:13 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Odighizuwa passes Moore on the depth chart if Moore doesn't start turning potential into consistency

Big_Pete
08-13-2015, 08:21 PM
CB depth is probably the biggest area of concern for me. Behind DRC and Prince we are very thin.

Big_Pete
08-13-2015, 08:23 PM
My understanding is that Jayron Hosley is being considered purely an outside corner. They are looking at other options for the slot.

Mel Pipeher
08-14-2015, 08:18 AM
After Flowers we can't afford to lose DRC and Prince. Until someone steps up we have no depth at CB.

Zak
08-14-2015, 06:06 PM
I'm actually a little excited for the game tonight. I used to absolutely love the preseason then I kind of just became meh about it. Now I'm back to a little above meh.

bigbluedefense
08-14-2015, 07:39 PM
I love preseason. I DVR every preseason game. Often times it's really the only time we ever get to see our rookies on the field, so there's always those 2 or 3 guys you want to go back and look for at the end of the season when you're heading into the next draft.

It usually means I overreact to certain players, like Adrian Tracy and Mitch Petrus to name a few. I see flashes of them in the preseason games and then get my hopes up.

But I don't care. It's football.

Zak
08-14-2015, 07:41 PM
You hated Adewale Ojomo.

bigbluedefense
08-14-2015, 07:43 PM
You hated Adewale Ojomo.

It's funny I completel erased that dude's existence from my memory. I instantly hated Jernigan too. I literally needed like 10 seconds to see him and decide he wasn't shit.

How can we forget cream puff? The TE, what's his face. Was it Beckham?

I wasn't a huge Barden fan either.

Zak
08-14-2015, 07:45 PM
It's funny I completel erased that dude's existence from my memory. I instantly hated Jernigan too. I literally needed like 10 seconds to see him and decide he wasn't shit.

How can we forget cream puff? The TE, what's his face. Was it Beckham?

I wasn't a huge Barden fan either.

The small Wisco TE I believe was Beckham. Jonas Seawright was another preseason star.

bigbluedefense
08-14-2015, 07:48 PM
The small Wisco TE I believe was Beckham. Jonas Seawright was another preseason star.

You know who I really liked who never panned out for us? Jonathan Goff. I really think if he never got hurt, he would still be our starting MIKE. He was going to be good.

The year he got hurt too, he was working on his hip flexibility and he was looking amazing out there. Then he tears his ACL and was never the same.

I loved Sintim too but he was a dumbass. I'm semi worried that Moore is going to become the new Clint Sintim. All the ability but his brain is going to leave him off the field. Of course then Sintim got hurt and didn't care anymore and that was the end of him.

Zak
08-14-2015, 08:02 PM
You know who I really liked who never panned out for us? Jonathan Goff. I really think if he never got hurt, he would still be our starting MIKE. He was going to be good.

The year he got hurt too, he was working on his hip flexibility and he was looking amazing out there. Then he tears his ACL and was never the same.

I loved Sintim too but he was a dumbass. I'm semi worried that Moore is going to become the new Clint Sintim. All the ability but his brain is going to leave him off the field. Of course then Sintim got hurt and didn't care anymore and that was the end of him.

I liked him also coming out of the draft. Nothing you can do about injuries though. Sintim's injuries and position switch did him in. We never should have drafted him even though I did like the pick. We always do a lot of round pegs into square hole choices.

BaLLiN
08-15-2015, 04:11 PM
Man, I hope these safety injuries aren't that bad. We really can't afford to have guys miss time there.

Zak
08-15-2015, 04:51 PM
If Collins is out for any time in preseason we're screwed anyway. He needs the reps.

Mel Pipeher
08-15-2015, 10:08 PM
Keep telling myself.. It's just the first preseason game.. Just the first preseason game. Keep calm. Keeeeeeep calm.

Zak
08-16-2015, 06:48 PM
Giants Injury Update, Aug. 16

Prince Amukamara – groin strain – day to day
Nat Berhe – calf strain – day to day
Chykie Brown – knee sprain – week to week
Landon Collins – knee sprain – day to day
Jayron Hosley – concussion protocol; cervical issue still being evaluated
Trumaine McBride – hamstring – day to day
Jameel McClain – neck – expected to practice today
Rueben Randle – tendinitis – day to day
Geoff Schwartz – ankle – expected to practice today
Mykkele Thompson – ruptured Achilles – out for the season

Big_Pete
08-16-2015, 09:22 PM
I really think we need to consider signing Evan Mathis and move Pugh to RT.

Zak
08-16-2015, 09:36 PM
Mathis is going to Miami it sounds like. He just doesn't want to participate in camp.

Mel Pipeher
08-16-2015, 11:13 PM
Pugh looked great at LG. If we move anyone to RT it's Schwartz.

Mel Pipeher
08-16-2015, 11:14 PM
We signed Brandon Merriweather to "help" at safety.

BaLLiN
08-17-2015, 12:06 AM
We signed Brandon Merriweather to "help" at safety.

Yeah...didn't he let up two of the three TD's donnell caught in that one game last year?

OSUGiants
08-17-2015, 12:07 AM
We signed Brandon Merriweather to "help" at safety.

Ugh I hate that scumbag but we do need help at safety.

Zak
08-17-2015, 02:05 PM
We need help at S but I'm not sure we can really call him help.

bigbluedefense
08-17-2015, 02:30 PM
I was going to put together a long break down of the game and my thoughts on various positions, players etc, but then I got lazy. And here we are.

Maybe I'll do it for week 2.

Zak
08-17-2015, 03:05 PM
There wasn't much to discuss anyway. I really wish JPP didn't blow his hand off because I like what I see out of our DE's so much. Even without him I think we might still be fine there but he really could have elevated the play. Kuhn is awful. Why was this guy starting? Eli and the Wr's looked like crap so they need to get going but that's obviously not the crew I'm worried about. If Schwartz can come back healthy and just give us something average I think we'll be good there.

Big_Pete
08-17-2015, 08:14 PM
I don't have an issue with the Merriweather signing. He adds veteran experience which will help our younger guys.

Big_Pete
08-17-2015, 09:48 PM
I had a look at the PFF ratings for the Bengals game, I found it a little interesting. Here are the top rated guys.

Offence
RT Marshall Newhouse +2.0
C Dallas Reynolds +1.8
FB Henry Hynoski +1.6
QB Ricky Stanzi +1.6
RT Bobby Hart +1.4

Defence
DRT Jay Bromley +3.4
LCB Trevin Wade +3.1
DLT Jonathan Hankins +2.4
FS Bennett Jackson +1.9
MLB Uani Unga +1.8
WLB Antonio Johnson +1.7
SLB Cole Farrand +1.6
DLT Kenrick Ellis +1.5
SLB Devon Kennard +1.3

Special Teams
KR Akeem Hunt +1.3

Good to see some decent individual efforts. Got to admit I was surprised by Newhouse and Hart.

Mel Pipeher
08-18-2015, 02:48 AM
I don't have an issue with the Merriweather signing. He adds veteran experience which will help our younger guys.

That goes without saying. It's his performance the last 3-4 years most of us are worried about..

But who knows maybe Spags can help him and who else we going to get at this point? So I'm like meh on it.

BaLLiN
08-18-2015, 02:56 AM
That goes without saying. It's his performance the last 3-4 years most of us are worried about..

But who knows maybe Spags can help him and who else we going to get at this point? So I'm like meh on it.

We had James Butler and CC Brown. I doubt that Meriweather is going to be worse lol

Mel Pipeher
08-18-2015, 03:03 AM
I had a look at the PFF ratings for the Bengals game, I found it a little interesting. Here are the top rated guys.

Offence
RT Marshall Newhouse +2.0
C Dallas Reynolds +1.8
FB Henry Hynoski +1.6
QB Ricky Stanzi +1.6
RT Bobby Hart +1.4

Defence
DRT Jay Bromley +3.4
LCB Trevin Wade +3.1
DLT Jonathan Hankins +2.4
FS Bennett Jackson +1.9
MLB Uani Unga +1.8
WLB Antonio Johnson +1.7
SLB Cole Farrand +1.6
DLT Kenrick Ellis +1.5
SLB Devon Kennard +1.3

Special Teams
KR Akeem Hunt +1.3

Good to see some decent individual efforts. Got to admit I was surprised by Newhouse and Hart.



I have no plans on watching that game again but from what I saw I'm a little surprised Bromley and Ellis didn't grade higher but then maybe that's because Kuhn sucked so much ass. Why is he even on the team? I don't get that.

I want to see more of Wade, Unga, and Hart. I was kinda impressed by them the other night.

Mel Pipeher
08-18-2015, 03:04 AM
We had James Butler and CC Brown. I doubt that Meriweather is going to be worse lol

Lol true

Big_Pete
08-18-2015, 06:04 AM
I have no plans on watching that game again but from what I saw I'm a little surprised Bromley and Ellis didn't grade higher but then maybe that's because Kuhn sucked so much ass. Why is he even on the team? I don't get that.

I want to see more of Wade, Unga, and Hart. I was kinda impressed by them the other night.

It is good to see the young LBs flash some ability. Perhaps Herzlich, McClain and Casillas will have a fight for their roster spots.

Zak
08-18-2015, 02:45 PM
I was really impressed by Unga. That guy was flying all over the place. I'm going to pay more attention to the game this Saturday than I did the Bengals one.

bigbluedefense
08-18-2015, 02:54 PM
Who was #47? He's a guy I want to keep an eye on.

Zak
08-18-2015, 03:00 PM
Who was #47? He's a guy I want to keep an eye on.

Unga the guy we're talking about.

bigbluedefense
08-18-2015, 03:03 PM
Unga the guy we're talking about.

He was all over the field and he moved relatively well at first glance. I want to keep an eye on him and see if anything is there. I feel like he's on the smaller side for a LB so chances are the Giants will cut him bc fast LBs are not allowed on our team.

Zak
08-18-2015, 03:07 PM
He was all over the field and he moved relatively well at first glance. I want to keep an eye on him and see if anything is there. I feel like he's on the smaller side for a LB so chances are the Giants will cut him bc fast LBs are not allowed on our team.

With Spags back that might not be the case anymore. Anyway at first glance I think we all liked him on the field. Will be interesting to see if he can keep bringing that NRG.

bigbluedefense
08-18-2015, 03:33 PM
With Spags back that might not be the case anymore. Anyway at first glance I think we all liked him on the field. Will be interesting to see if he can keep bringing that NRG.

I wonder if he can also play WILL. JT Thomas didn't inspire a lot of confidence in me last week. We'll see how it goes.

Zak
08-18-2015, 04:24 PM
I don't even know who our backup LB's are tbh.

cgf
08-18-2015, 06:13 PM
I don't even know who our backup LB's are tbh.

We don't have actual LBs. What we see on the field looking like linebackers are actually just a collective hallucination. That's why they never actually do anything.

bigbluedefense
08-18-2015, 06:20 PM
Cgf is here!

Zak
08-18-2015, 07:17 PM
We don't have actual LBs. What we see on the field looking like linebackers are actually just a collective hallucination. That's why they never actually do anything.

Kennard could do well. Beason and McClain while older are serviceable average LB's. Was Pierce our last above average LB?

Mel Pipeher
08-19-2015, 07:12 AM
Lets say this report of Eli wanting to be the highest paid is true, what's everyone's thoughts on that?

BaLLiN
08-19-2015, 01:37 PM
Kennard could do well. Beason and McClain while older are serviceable average LB's. Was Pierce our last above average LB?

I thought Boley was pretty good when he initially came here.

Lets say this report of Eli wanting to be the highest paid is true, what's everyone's thoughts on that?

I would entertain a frontloaded deal like Rivers's but otherwise I am waiting out this year, franchising him and then seeing how many teams are going to want to sign a 36 y/o QB to a multi-year contract.

bigbluedefense
08-19-2015, 01:38 PM
Yeah Boley was our last good LB. Pierce was our last good MIKE. I'd argue that Goff was, but he didn't stay on the field long enough for us to count.

I have no problem with giving Eli as much money as he wants. He's Eli. He's worth every penny.

Zak
08-19-2015, 01:44 PM
Forgot about Boley.

Eli is getting paid no mater what. His cap hits the last three years have been huge anyway so it's going to be more of the same or possibly even less because they can stretch it out again. I think the new system has helped him and he'll be fine playing until he retires. We know at this point what we're getting out of the guy and it's better to go with him until we can't anymore at which point we'll be screwed anyway for a few years most likely.

cgf
08-19-2015, 04:37 PM
Kennard could do well. Beason and McClain while older are serviceable average LB's. Was Pierce our last above average LB?

True, Kennard does give me hope, but I'm just waiting for the career ending injury with him.

Boley was legit before breaking down, even if he was small.

Cgf is here!

Yeah, I've made a couple posts in the soccer and hockey threads, but the NFL just has me too down to talk about. The only saving grace is that the Giants aren't the Knicks. :(

Mel Pipeher
08-19-2015, 08:24 PM
Eli is denying the report of wanting to be the highest paid player.

Hmmm... This sounds so familiar to 2009.

In the spring of '09 there was a report Eli wanted to be the leagues highest paid player. Eli of course denied that saying "I have no ego about that". Fast forward a few months it's August '09 and Eli inks a deal averaging 15.3 million per season... making him the leagues highest paid.

Is Eli telling another fib? I think so but I guess we'll find out soon enough.

For what it's worth I still stand on what I said back on DC when we last discussed this. Let him play this season out then hit him with the exclusive franchise tag. That will pay him 23.7 million next year which would make him the highest paid. So he'll get what he wants but in two years his price should be cheaper than it is now considering his age and what he has left but if it isn't I'd let him walk with no regrets.

Zak
08-20-2015, 12:49 AM
Can we take that cap hit next year though? I guess we probably could now that JPP won't be getting paid.

bigbluedefense
08-20-2015, 12:52 AM
JPP is done with us. They won't sign him back.

Mel Pipeher
08-20-2015, 08:15 AM
Yea after reading john Maras comments I'd be surprised if JPP is back unless he has a monster season.

I don't think the 23.7 million cap hit with next years cap limit increase would be any different then it has been the last few years with his 20 million cap hit at those cap limits.

Damix
08-20-2015, 12:52 PM
ODB and Pugh out today for dental work.

Couldn't of done this during the offseason?

Zak
08-20-2015, 01:37 PM
ODB and Pugh out today for dental work.

Couldn't of done this during the offseason?

They were out yesterday and will be back today. Who knows why they waited when these reps are supposed to be so important.

bigbluedefense
08-20-2015, 02:05 PM
I feel like our team is soft. We have a soft finesse team. We don't have anyone on the team that brings the nasty and increases the intensity on either side of the ball and that's a problem.

We need a Jacobs on offense. We need a Strahan/Pierce on defense. Someone who is going to bring some attitude to the field. I feel like right now we don't have that.

I really want to see a lot more physicality out of our team on both sides of the ball this Saturday, bc we played like a soft ass team vs the Bengals.

Zak
08-20-2015, 02:13 PM
I feel like our team is soft. We have a soft finesse team. We don't have anyone on the team that brings the nasty and increases the intensity on either side of the ball and that's a problem.

We need a Jacobs on offense. We need a Strahan/Pierce on defense. Someone who is going to bring some attitude to the field. I feel like right now we don't have that.

I really want to see a lot more physicality out of our team on both sides of the ball this Saturday, bc we played like a soft ass team vs the Bengals.

Flowers has a little nasty streak in him. OBJ does. Moore does.

bigbluedefense
08-20-2015, 02:24 PM
Flowers has a little nasty streak in him. OBJ does. Moore does.

I'm hoping Flowers and Richburg can bring the nasty to our OL. Pugh is soft. Schwartz is all talk. RT doesn't exist.

I want a RB on offense that's nasty. Physicality is often a functionality of the run game. You need a nasty OL and/or RB to bring the pain. If we didn't suck so much at screen passes we could have just a nasty OL and still be a physical offense but we still suck at them.

Defensively I think linebackers need to be nasty. They're the ones that make the majority of the tackles, you need tough linebackers. I'm hoping Kennard can be that force in the second level for us.

We have guys on the roster who might take on that role, but they need to do it. I saw a very soft team on the field last week. It's like they didn't want to get hurt and played like it. I get that it's preseason but still.

I want to see more urgency and physicality this Saturday.

Zak
08-20-2015, 03:04 PM
We'll see but I think that might be a little overrated. Pats are pretty finesse.

Mel Pipeher
08-20-2015, 07:31 PM
I agree with BBD. I'd like to see some nasty. Flowers has it. I think it's safe to assume Richburg has it too after that flying headbutt last season. I'd love a RB like Jacobs again but they don't really grow on trees. Nasty LBs however do, we just seem to always draft or sign bitches. Kennard is going to be good especially in this system but he's not nasty. Moore has an attitude I like.

Zak
08-20-2015, 07:53 PM
OBJ gets everyone riled up because the competition goes after him tough. Case in point that Rams game from last year.

Mel Pipeher
08-21-2015, 07:14 AM
I think Beckhams trash talking is the reason why he has guys going after him. The team just stuck up for him as they should.

I'm talking about the nasty that is borderline dirty. You know them guys who just get after it with bad intentions.

OSUGiants
08-22-2015, 09:33 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000514381/article/giants-down-almost-20-percent-of-roster-for-saturday

I knew our injuries have been bad for years but not this bad

Mel Pipeher
08-23-2015, 08:42 PM
Bennett Jackson tore his ACL.

BaLLiN
08-23-2015, 09:07 PM
Alright, this is getting ridiculous.

Big_Pete
08-23-2015, 09:36 PM
I am liking what I see from the left side of our Oline. Flowers, Pugh and Richburg seem to be emerging as a good combo. Newhouse seems to be adequate and if we can get Schwartz at RG our line should be ok

Mel Pipeher
08-23-2015, 11:30 PM
It's showing promise but you have to remember in the preseason we see a mostly vanilla defense. They have looked good though.

Nassib, Moore, and Unga also played well.

Big_Pete
08-24-2015, 12:30 AM
It's showing promise but you have to remember in the preseason we see a mostly vanilla defense. They have looked good though.

Nassib, Moore, and Unga also played well.

I think the biggest thing is that there is improvement.

Not sold on our DT's just yet. Kuhn isn't getting it done. I would like to see Bromley and Ellis get some reps with the first team.

Nice to see some flashes from JT Thomas as well